Pre-Supremacy history - Creation of the Artiloids

[malika]

In order not to deviate to much from the History Repeat thread, I decided to open up a new thread. When looking at many science fiction settings with miniatures, they tend to have a heavy influence of fantasy. You got super technology with all sorts of fancy gizmos, but people still fight with swords.

So, this would be a hard scifi setting, more akin to various cyberpunk scenarios and what not. Note that is still takes place in the (far) future, so thing will be rather different from out world. The setting is partly based on the exploits of Alexander the Great (with some artistic liberties taken here and there) and would function as a pre-pre-setting for SITA scenarios. The pre-setting being the Supremacy era, this would be the pre-Supremacy era.

Humanity leaves Earth:
Humans have already left Earth several centuries ago, colonies have formed on Mars, Venus and the asteroid belt surrounding the Inner Solar System. Colony ships have also left for the outer reaches of our solar system, but nothing has been heard from them after the passed the asteroid belt.

Conflict between Earth and Mars:
Mars and Earth were very different ideologically. This difference between ideologies was the cause for many wars between the two worlds. Earth had strict laws against the production of artificial intelligence whilst Mars was resistant against genetic modification of the human species. Whilst this is not the exact reason for the conflict, the masses were made to believe that it was. The primary motivations for the wars was of course economically and politically motivated, both planets wanted to complete control of the market and resources.

After many wars Mars seemed to have had the upper hand, whilst it did not directly dominate Earth, it did have a superior position militarily. Earth was too divided to truly stand against the armies of Mars. However, political turmoil was brewing on Mars. Various politicians and generals sought to take power after the fall of the previous government. Eventually it was the Codomannus Enterprises that managed to take power on the red planet.

Consolidating power:
With Mars entering an era of political instability those on Earth saw that the time was ripe to strike back at Mars. Whilst the Codomannus Enterprises managed to come to power by filling up a void, on Earth the Macedon Corporation brutally crushed anybody who stood in its way. Entire nations were decimated in the rise of the Macedon Corporation.

Attacking Mars:
With Earth under tight control, the Macedon Corporation sought to expand its power by attacking Mars. They order their best general, whose surname was Alexander, to lead the campaign. Lacking the automated armies that Mars had, Alexander's armies were considerably smaller. But what they lacked in numbers, they made up in skill and strength. Most of the soldiers of the Macedon Corporation are genetically modified and undergo years of training before being sent off to war.

Beyond Mars:
In several years Alexander's forces had conquered Mars. Whilst this was the goal of the Macedon Corporation, Alexander's ambition reached farther. He desired to conquer the colonies on the asteroid belt as well and after that even move to Jupiter to search for the lost colonies.

Furthermore, Alexander had installed himself as ruler of the newly conquered world and sought to create a form of ideological hybridization between Mars and Earth (something that could be seen as a predecessor of the Supremacy of a sorts). Many opposed this move, but did not dare to publicly resist the famous general.

The war in the asteroid belt would continue for many years, but Alexander never managed to discover the lost colonies. Before he could move further his men demanded to return to Earth and were at the point of mutiny. Realizing he would be unable to go any further, Alexander reluctantly ended the campaign and returned to earth.

Alexander's death:
During the return voyage Alexander and his lieutenants were already preparing for a new military campaign, namely the conquest of Venus. However, this never came to be as Alexander unexpectedly became ill and died several weeks later. There has been a lot of speculation on the cause of death, but many believe he was murdered. During his years Alexander had made many enemies, those he defeated on Mars, the elites of the Macedon Corporation who weren't too happy about Alexander taking all the glory (and power), his own lieutenants and soldiers who were forced to adopt Martian doctrines, etc.

Setting for games:
Generally the games would take place between the forces of the Macedon corporation and their enemies. Players could play out the battles in various eras, be it the consolidation of power on Earth, the conquest of Mars or the expansion of the asteroid belt.

As for the game itself, I would imagine that Warspike could be the main basis for this?

Types of armies:
-Earth's forces: They generally tend to field small armies of elite soldiers. Often these humans are genetically modified and possess all sorts of very advanced weaponry (Phil's Ardac EW-8 sniper rifle comes to mind here). They are normally supported by naval assets and have their own transports and gunships.

-Mars' forces: Could be seen as the opposite of Earth type armies due to the fact that their armies contain many units. Whilst they, like Earth's forces have high tech weaponry and a few human (non-augmented) soldiers/controllers, the majority of their armies consist of droids. Some of the have (limited) artificial intelligence, whilst the majority are remote controller units. (I imagine the robots to have a design similar to Technoscream's GRAVEN Robotic Infantry)

-Asteroid belt forces: The Asteroid Belt contains many different independent colonies, their forces are very varied. Some are akin to those on Earth, whilst others are similar to those on Mars, others are a mixture between the two and yet others are totally different.



So yeah, comments, critique, suggestions?

[Philip S]

This could be woven into the background.

The original in on my site under the Dark Age of Technology (see Stone Men, and the Mars Accord).

In that the Artilects have taken over Mars to the exclusion of humans.

The Alexander initiative could be before this happens. Perhaps the Artilects start to rise after humans leave after the failed Alexander initiative.

Another idea to weave into this is that the genetic modified humans machine programming kicked started the Artilects. Perhaps originally it was to sabotage the Mars armies to give machines independence/ self awareness, that has unforeseen circumstances. This lead to machines 'evolving' and making new machines in humanities absence (out of sight/ covert).

Or all this could be a 'modular component'. An option for Players/ GM when constructing the background.

Philip

[malika]

The Alexander initiative could be before this happens. Perhaps the Artilects start to rise after humans leave after the failed Alexander initiative.

That was pretty much the idea. The Alexander Initiative eventually ends (whether it was a failure is up to debate), what it does create is a new unity between Earth and Mars. The Artilects would then be the eventual result of this newly formed alliance.

Another idea to weave into this is that the genetic modified humans machine programming kicked started the Artilects. Perhaps originally it was to sabotage the Mars armies to give machines independence/ self awareness, that has unforeseen circumstances. This lead to machines 'evolving' and making new machines in humanities absence (out of sight/ covert).

Well, those who might look back into history might interpret this as such, I guess this would all be determined by the GM. However, I imagined that Mars already worked on Artificial Intelligence, but didn't create anything superior to a normal human yet. I imagine that the creation of a completely superior being, such as a (proto) Artilect, only came after Mars and Earth started to work together.

However, this would all be stuff that would take place post-Initiative.

[Philip S]

One aspect of the Artilect is that it is 'bio-photonic' and that means there is a biological component that grows and consumes resources. It's a bit like bio-nanites building things and taking on different roles.

The biological component is not intelligent. The intelligence comes form the inorganic-non living structures made by the bio-nanites. A bit like bodies make teeth and bone (Hydroxylapatite), but in this case the 'Hydroxylapatite' are arranged into photonic computer networks. A little like Geobacter (project) only a lot more complicated.

The biological component can produce energy, light etc. to power the computer network. It can build structures, computer cores, and convert incoming radiation (sunlight etc.) into electrical energy and specific light wavelengths.

Such a symbiotic lifeform could escape and start growing wild. If it were to get into an automated factory it could start to build it's own versions of items. Robots would be a good choice, maybe even containing bio-photonics.

It may also have the ability to control growth and type of structures made (in the same way a fruiting body of a fungus is a distinct structure), these structures that from when certain conditions are met could be 'computer nodes' within a network. It could make other nodes and maybe photonic or field technologies like lasers and power fields.

The Artilect's intelligence may be cold, inhuman, calculating, and inorganic, but the biological component is very much alive and ravenous, and will stop at nothing to convert everything it can to 'Artilect'. It converts materials at a geometric rate if resources are available.

This means there is a rather odd dichotomy between the biological and the inorganic.

Once a world is completely dominated and converted the biological component will stop, but by then the Artilect has probably found ways to import materials (catalysts and such) to convert ever more of the world to computer structures.

The older the Artilect the more powerful its intelligence.

With this in mind, the Artilects are not really built by humans as such. Humans with CAD design it, but I figure the biological component mutates and cannot be controlled. The result of the ensuing wildfire conversion is a new type of super-intelligence.

As the design is based on 'photonics' it can access the previous generation of crystal tech and the even earlier optoelectronic technology. This means the bio-phonontic can absorb older, machine made, computer tech. It can interface, hack, and even modify it.

I imagine the control mechanisms for the biological component is probably light, both wavelength and intensity (areas of the network that get overloaded will bring about 'core nodes', and faster links.) and chemical (as in biological processes).

In relation to the Sciror timeline, and the Alexander Initiative the Artilect can spring up at any time. Once invented, it can mutate at a later date to suit the scenario. It will then try and convert Mars to Artilect until it runs out of the resources it need.

I'm not sure how it would do this without water or some other liquid, but if Mars has been partially terraformed, or uses Ecoria, this could be a way in.

Philip

[malika]

I'm not sure how it would do this without water or some other liquid, but if Mars has been partially terraformed, or uses Ecoria, this could be a way in.

Dude, check out this link. Mars has water, no worries there then!

In relation to the Sciror timeline, and the Alexander Initiative the Artilect can spring up at any time. Once invented, it can mutate at a later date to suit the scenario. It will then try and convert Mars to Artilect until it runs out of the resources it need.

The result of the Alexander Initiative was that the cultural and political opportunity was created for the Artilect to exist. Whilst I view the Alexander Initiative as a "re-history" of Alexander the Great, it is also very closely connected to another alternate/sci fi history version of Alexander the Great, namely Reign: The Conqueror. In it the "destruction of the world" is rather a metaphysical one, the old world of Aristotle and Plato has been replaced for one of Euclid and Ptolemy. The Alexander Initiative did something similar, it destroyed the old order and replaced it with something new. This new order creates the environment where the first Artilects could be formed.

[Philip S]

Apr 4, 2011 8:07:02 GMT -5 malika said:

I'm not sure how it would do this without water or some other liquid, but if Mars has been partially terraformed, or uses Ecoria, this could be a way in.

Dude, check out this link. Mars has water, no worries there then!

I guess the bio-nanites invade the polar caps! Being able to transmit light, heat (inc. IR) and electricity means it can melt and then build all over the polar region. Then expand (like fungus/ dry rot) and transport water with it to dryer locations. Probably searching for new water, and it may find Ecoria

Apr 4, 2011 8:07:02 GMT -5 malika said:

In relation to the Sciror timeline, and the Alexander Initiative the Artilect can spring up at any time. Once invented, it can mutate at a later date to suit the scenario. It will then try and convert Mars to Artilect until it runs out of the resources it need.

The result of the Alexander Initiative was that the cultural and political opportunity was created for the Artilect to exist. Whilst I view the Alexander Initiative as a "re-history" of Alexander the Great, it is also very closely connected to another alternate/sci fi history version of Alexander the Great, namely Reign: The Conqueror. In it the "destruction of the world" is rather a metaphysical one, the old world of Aristotle and Plato has been replaced for one of Euclid and Ptolemy. The Alexander Initiative did something similar, it destroyed the old order and replaced it with something new. This new order creates the environment where the first Artilects could be formed.

Sounds good to me.

Philip

[malika]

I guess the bio-nanites invade the polar caps! Being able to transmit light, heat (inc. IR) and electricity means it can melt and then build all over the polar region. Then expand (like fungus/ dry rot) and transport water with it to dryer locations. Probably searching for new water, and it may find Ecoria

Find Ecoria? Wouldn't the construction of the Ecoria be something that took place even later, once the machines have evolved in the shape we know them to be?

Unless the designs for the Ecoria in itself is pre-Supremacy and originally a human design/project that later on has been perfected by the machines.

However, this is all stuff that would take place after the Alexander Initiative setting.

[Philip S]

The basis of Ecoria technology is pre-Supremacy. When taking over Mars, before any terraforming is even started, it would be a good idea to have enclosed, self-sustaining habitats. While the very first may be nothing more than a converted ship (using Ecoria tech), later the colonist could build quite 'Ecoria' like structures.

There may be a few bio-domes during the transition (from ship living to moving into an Ecoria), and for scientific reasons, but the artificial light technologies that power rack farms on Earth will be taken to Mars (as it is a familiar technology) and can be build with machines. A lot of the building materials would be taken from Mars. Much of the industrial base will be machine powered (as they do not need air or food, and can move about on the Martian surface.

This is a more efficient, but 'brute force', method of terraforming. Instead of terraforming the whole planet, they terraform small (relatively speaking) enclosed spaces. The aim will be to cover the whole of Mars with Ecoria.

During the Alexander Initiative Ecoria may already be up and running, along with a Martian industrial base built on machine tech (advanced VI/ AI). Machines would play a big part in the colonisation of Mars, as Mars cannot support life naturally.

I imagine the machines would be controlled from the landed spaceship (where the humans live) and direct the building of the industrial complex. It would be build up in stages, with human moving out of the ship into the new structures. Each new stage is started by the machines. Finished and used by humans.

This would play into your concept: this is why Mars is very pro machine. The Martian colonists would find it very hard to keep up with the rate of colonisation, and maintain their artificial habitats, without the computer systems and machines they rely on.

Philip

[malika]

The basis of Ecoria technology is pre-Supremacy. When taking over Mars, before any terraforming is even started, it would be a good idea to have enclosed, self-sustaining habitats. While the very first may be nothing more than a converted ship (using Ecoria tech), later the colonist could build quite 'Ecoria' like structures.

I guess the introduction of the habitats would have taken place a long time before the Mars Initiative. Hence, the Ecoria are a lot older than we think. I can imagine the Ecorium was first introduced when colonizing Luna... (Philip Initiative, as a nod to Alexander the Great's father?)

This would play into your concept: this is why Mars is very pro machine. The Martian colonists would find it very hard to keep up with the rate of colonisation, and maintain their artificial habitats, without the computer systems and machines they rely on.

I like the points you raised in your post, only this bothers me slightly. I want to avoid the cliche of humans fighting machines because humans turn into this sort of neo-Luddite attitude. I think the war between Mars and Earth during the Alexander Initiative has to do with machines, but not just machines. I mean, Earth uses them too. AI isn't even the problem, the problem might be that Mars was working on AI that would have been self-aware, in other words the creation of a sorts of "artificial soul".

[Philip S]

Right getting my thinking cap on;

What if the machines the Terra forces have an issue with is a type of proto-artiloid?

A human sized 'android' with the new bio-photonic brains (cheap to produce - a pig to 'teach') that take up much of the work on Mars.

It may simply be fear that prompt the attack and the human imagination could imagine all kinds of nightmare scenario that an 'artificial human like machine' can bring to mind. From infiltrators that look human, to suppressing forces that are highly skilled and superior to humans in every way in combat and co-operation in war. It's too much and Terra takes drastic action to stop this.

The early Artiloids where not fighters, it did even figure in their make-up, and do not resist the invasion (Martian colonist do!).

The Alexander Initiative was to exterminate this 'abominations' and that is what happened. Maybe the genetic enhancement was 'justified' by the idea they were going up against machines.

Humans from Terra wage war, win, and then execute the proto-artiloids by shooting them in the head (breaches the 'skull' exposing the bio-photonics which utterly destroys them). The Terra forces do see the proto-artiloids did not defend themselves, and die happily, but they are killed because of the potential of what they could (in a rabid fear induced imaginings) become.

At the polar region, the site of interest, we can place a water processing plant. The damaged 'device' that leaks into the Martian water is the remains of bio-photonics from an executed proto-artiloid.

This is one reason the Artilects, when they rise, build the new Artiloids to be so tough. The machine mind knows it has superiority in super lethal weaponry, but it also has to communicate with humans and it resurrects the Artiloid concept. The PR front end to the great Artilect/s of Mars.

Philip

[malika]

Apr 11, 2011 8:23:37 GMT -5 Philip S said:

Right getting my thinking cap on;

What if the machines the Terra forces have an issue with is a type of proto-artiloid?

That might be a possibility, I myself was more thinking that the Alexander Initiative would have taken place even before that and that the unification between Mars and Earth results in the creation of a proto-artiloid.

A human sized 'android' with the new bio-photonic brains (cheap to produce - a pig to 'teach') that take up much of the work on Mars.

Very much possible!

It may simply be fear that prompt the attack and the human imagination could imagine all kinds of nightmare scenario that an 'artificial human like machine' can bring to mind. From infiltrators that look human, to suppressing forces that are highly skilled and superior to humans in every way in combat and co-operation in war. It's too much and Terra takes drastic action to stop this.

This is the whole reason why Terra/Earth resists artificial self-awareness. The conflict between Mars and Earth is based on this. By the way, kind of off topic, could there be such a thing as an "artificial soul" in Sciror?

The early Artiloids where not fighters, it did even figure in their make-up, and do not resist the invasion (Martian colonist do!).

I think we should make a separation between Artiloids and Androids/Cyborgs. I still think it would be better if the Artiloid technology is the result of a fusion between Earth and Mars' culture/technology.

The Alexander Initiative was to exterminate this 'abominations' and that is what happened. Maybe the genetic enhancement was 'justified' by the idea they were going up against machines.

Earth's philosophy might be very akin to that in the Dune novels, as in that they did not wish to create a self-aware AI and that some on Earth might have taken that to the extreme and sought to alter the human genome in an attempt to replace the machine. After Mars and Earth form this new empire after the Alexander Initiative, we see these technologies combined in the formation of a proto-Artiloid.

Humans from Terra wage war, win, and then execute the proto-artiloids by shooting them in the head (breaches the 'skull' exposing the bio-photonics which utterly destroys them). The Terra forces do see the proto-artiloids did not defend themselves, and die happily, but they are killed because of the potential of what they could (in a rabid fear induced imaginings) become.

I think this would be more fitting for a follow up scenario/setting. Maybe this is where Venus gets involved. Meaning that the proto-Artiloid was the result of the collaboration between Earth and Mars, but the complete Artiloid was the result of Mars, Earth and Venus working together.

[Philip S]

The current future;
A proper 'Artiloid' is the creation of the machines (Artilects) which take over Mars.

Earth and Mars only really join forces as a cooperative force when the Artilects rise to power. There is also a strong division between to two even through the form an alliance - where Earth is humans and Mars is for machines.

The time of Alexander
If Earth and Mars have friction (I assume Mars would be self governing) and Earth invade to impose their law, then Earth forces have to stay and enforce that law. Everyone one would suspect that as soon as the Earth forces leave the Martian colonist will go back to what they were doing before. Even if all the tech was destroyed, the Earth forces know the Martians will be researching once more, and they can't rule out that they missed something. It's a bit like the crusades. It's not going to end in harmony.

It seems to me, that if the governments of Earth and Mars are fundamentally opposed, then any alliance is going to be shaky at best. The cold war springs to mind.

I doubt Earth and Mars will work together as they do not trust each other (there is also the distance between the two worlds to factor in). Two nations often have trouble working together unless they share a lot in common. On our world capitalism bind many nations together, but as soon as one nation strays even a little bit from the excepted norms there are problems.

Building self-aware synthetic humans like robots is pretty much like a nation in our current era attempting to build nukes, or any WMD. It's going to get everyone's back up.

Mars probably thinks it has the right, as an autonomous sovereign state, to do what it likes. It seems the synthetics as peaceful in nature and probably saving lives doing hard and difficult jobs. They do not accept Earth's ignorance of the project as a reason to stop, and Earth may no longer be listening (as they would judge the situation based on what their scientists know, and their scientists do not know anything about bio-phototonics).

Binding it all together
If you are not too keen on synthetics (proto-artiloids) turning up during your scenario, perhaps it could be computers based on bio-photonics. Maybe Earth wants the technology and Mars isn't sharing.

When can then think of another way to get the bio-photonics into the wild, and discard 'ice station zebra' () event.

Or set the Alexander Initiative much earlier, and get into the Artilects much later.

Philip

[malika]

The original premise was that the setting is set much earlier. However, we could place it a bit later I guess, but then we'd have to work with "proto-artilects" and "proto-artiloids" rather than the versions we know today.

One of the things I always remembered about Alexander the Great's conquests was that once he took over Persia he tried to create a form of "hybrid" between Greece and Persia. I imagined that in the Alexander Initiative this would be an important factor, the conquerors try to create a hybridity between Mars and Earth. I imagined that this hybridity would then result in the creation of the Artilects and Artiloids.

It seems to me, that if the governments of Earth and Mars are fundamentally opposed, then any alliance is going to be shaky at best. The cold war springs to mind.

It has nothing to do with an alliance, at the end it's about simple conquest. However, what we end up seeing is that Alexander does not fully follow Earth wishes (who simply was to crush and subjugate Mars), but starts to combine Earth and Mars' ideologies/technologies in order to create something new.

Mars probably thinks it has the right, as an autonomous sovereign state, to do what it likes. It seems the synthetics as peaceful in nature and probably saving lives doing hard and difficult jobs. They do not accept Earth's ignorance of the project as a reason to stop, and Earth may no longer be listening (as they would judge the situation based on what their scientists know, and their scientists do not know anything about bio-phototonics).

What if Mars wasn't that advanced yet? Mars might have been experimenting a bit with this kind of technology, but hasn't made any serious advancements yet. Earth however has very little interest in this. The war between Earth and Mars might even not be ideologically but more based on economics/resources/etc. Earth then throws the "AI card", kind of in a similar fashion to how the "WMD card" was misused during the Iraq War. So the official reason for Earth to go to war might have been Mars' meddling into Artificial Intelligence, but the actual reason of the war might have been that Earth sought to control Mars' resources.

[Philip S]

Apr 13, 2011 4:51:53 GMT -5 malika said:

I imagined that in the Alexander Initiative this would be an important factor, the conquerors try to create a hybridity between Mars and Earth.

That would be a possibility worth looking into. Perhaps once Alexander gets power he decides he's going to keep it for himself! Earth is a long way away.

Apr 13, 2011 4:51:53 GMT -5 malika said:

I imagined that this hybridity would then result in the creation of the Artilects and Artiloids.

Their combined efforts could lead to the technology that makes this possible. I do want to keep the Artilects as a covert machine creation that is separate from what humans are up to. A sub-plot/ story arc.

Apr 13, 2011 4:51:53 GMT -5 malika said:

It has nothing to do with an alliance, at the end it's about simple conquest.

If this is the case, would there be lots of colonists from Earth? If they intend to settle land this could be a cause of friction.

Perhaps this was the original plan to move people from Earth to Mars, but things did not go according to plan. Setting up the colonies was more difficult than anticipated, and Mars does not have the facilities?

Apr 13, 2011 4:51:53 GMT -5 malika said:

What if Mars wasn't that advanced yet? Mars might have been experimenting a bit with this kind of technology, but hasn't made any serious advancements yet. Earth however has very little interest in this. The war between Earth and Mars might even not be ideologically but more based on economics/resources/etc. Earth then throws the "AI card", kind of in a similar fashion to how the "WMD card" was misused during the Iraq War. So the official reason for Earth to go to war might have been Mars' meddling into Artificial Intelligence, but the actual reason of the war might have been that Earth sought to control Mars' resources.

Seems reasonable.

If we combine it with the above ideas on colonists (and set it earlier) then Earth may see Mars 'stalling' as some form of betrayal. They simply ignore the status reports coming from Mars as bogus. They send more colonists; this time with an armed escort?

Hmm, doesn't really ring true as yet: Earth sets up Mars, Mars goes for independence and Earth doesn't like it. A war of independence? The US war of independence would suit better.

The problem with squeezing the exploits of Alexander into this scenario is that where Alexander went there were people fighting back. Everything was fully colonised.

What if we turn this on it's head and make Alexander an AFG leading a Legion on a mad rampage accross the stars? Or set it on Earth and let rip (a bit like the techno-barbarian wars of 40K distant past).

Philip

[malika]

What if we turn this on it's head and make Alexander an AFG leading a Legion on a mad rampage accross the stars? Or set it on Earth and let rip (a bit like the techno-barbarian wars of 40K distant past).

Hmm, that might be an idea. Would be more fitting for a conquest scenario. But how would Alexander fit in with your Legion stuff since the Legion material is primarily a "re-telling" of Roman history?

The way I'm looking at it now is that whilst there might have been a war, for the big storyline the war itself isn't that important, it seems to happen on the side of this technological change. What this might mean for this scenario, especially as a setting for a game, is that it might not be the best setting for a skirmish wargame. I can imagine that this setting would indeed be a lot more interesting as an RPG...