I'm planning on starting a second attempt at a chaos dragon, i need one for my chaos army and there's not currently one on the market that satisfies my criteria. I was just wanting to get peoples opinions about what 'makes' a chaos dragon and what you'd like to see in a model representing one. i want you to consider things like size, pose, appearence, textures, riders, sources of inspiration. I have a few different designs in my head but can't decide what kind of aesthetic to go with (low fantasy, high fantasy, serpentine, saurian, leonine, bat like, armoured, un armoured, scaly, flayed etc.) and as there's always the potential for sales i thought i would ask for your views
EDIT: i scrapped the last attempt as it was getting too over muscled and then i accidentaly broke it and didn't think it was worth salvageing.
A mutated dragon like the one from Forgeworld would be cool. Perhaps a smaller one and with a single head? Give it a longer more serpentine body, bat-like wings, but then with weird mutations as well, not too decaying in order to keep the model look fast and dynamic (as if it's flying straight into the enemy).
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It's definately getting more than one head (2 or 3) and a bifurcated tail. and smaller than the forgeworld dragon (which wasn't designed with any consideration for adding a rider or using the model as a day to day gaming piece)
I want the model to be relatively big and imposing but still practical for line of sight and balancing on uneven surfaces (whilst mounted on a 50mm square base)
I'm tempted to do a pose where the dragon is perched on a gnarled tree (hollow so it can be weighted), wings unfurling, heads lowered, tail in the air behind it as a counterbalance, tensed, on the edge of pounching either into combat or flight. quite a darmatic but subtle pose, it'd be hard to pull off though.
think of a cat/lion/cheetah at the second it bursts from a crouch, throwing itself at it prey. i want to try and capture that coiled sping feeling but it would be easy to get it wrong
a full on flying pose (whilst cool) might be a bit unbalanced if perched on a hill or slope and you dont want a big expensive dragon falling and breaking.
How serpentine? are you talking full on snake like Wyrm, or just long necks and tails, i'm just trying to figure out if you mean low fantasy (gritty realism) or high fantasy (more fantastical)
I am pretty sure that the FW Chaos Dragon was designed without any consideration for adding a rider because it is a model for Galrauch, First of the Chaos Dragons, a Chaos Special Character.
As for the design, I think you should try to go your own way with this. As mentioned a few times before; Troll Forged shouldn't just be a GW Cookie Cutter Company. We should try to make all our work in a universe of it's own. I think you should try out lots of exotic concepts to make this something special. Try out different wing textures, like feathered for example, and maybe have Giger style mutation instead of the traditional spikes, tentacles and maws path. Maybe even go for a non-human rider.
Post by Troll Forged on Jul 15, 2010 17:53:30 GMT -5
IMO the best approach would be a 2 headed dragon with thick scales. Think of Andy's but thicker or more armored looking scales and 2 heads. I'd do one head thin and needle like and one more thick like a t-rex type. I would not over do texture or anything of that nature as I believe that is a GW touch I think is over the top.
Mutation as in 2 different heads or even possible slight changes from one leg in the front, etc. would be more than enough. A few spines on one had and neck slowly dissapearing into nothing down the back? I'd love to see you finish one as I think it would be brilliant. I'd like to see minotaur in my mold machine more though. LOL! ;D
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I think i might stick with the body plan of this old sketch
but with a longer, more serpentine/vulptine neck(s)
I think i will keep mutations to a minimum, use a less is more approach.It's already going to have 2 heads and a forked tail which is already pretty mutated.
perhaps a little syndactyly (fused/semi-fused fingers and/or toes) shredded wings and more serrated scutes (armoured scales) should do it nicely.
i might add a fang lined may at the join between the necks, just to help hide what i've always thought to be an akward join
i might have the saddle attached with hook ended chains piercing the dragons flanks and shoulders.
Does any one else have any oppinion on the potential pose?
@ed, Don't worry, I'm not going to start this model until some of my other projects are done. I still have to paint my night goblin army before my girlfreind will let me buy anything new for my chaos army and so far i've only done one regiment of 30 (there's still another 80+ goblins to go....thank god for airbrushes). in the mean time i have 4 kits that are close to completion (Warmonger, Manticore, Minotaurs and Raiders - most just requiring some tweaking and tidying up) they'll appear in the submissions forum when i'm ready
I'm going to have a bash at the really dynamic puoncing/takeoff pose. i'm possitive it'll need a scenic base in order to achieve the pose i desire at the size needed to realistically carry a chaos lord (who tend to be huge) and still be a practical gaming piece (for ranking up etc.) the pose i have in mind shouldn't make true LOS too much of an issue. my problem is what to have it pouncing off of?
My initial ideas are
Rocky outcropping Broken Hag Tree Temple ruins EDIT: i've added more to the poll
As for mutations, i think it will be
2 heads (both similar but unique), a lamprey like maw in the junction between the necks armoured scutes along the spine and sternum marked with evil runes zygodactaly of one hand (parrot like arrangement of fingers) syndactaly of the second and third toe on one foot shredded wing membranes bifurcated tail with blade and stinger tips
@ed, This will be a large and complicated kit that could potentially be a bugger to mould so i will be picking your brain often (Braaains! ) even then i'd understand if you didn't want to take it on. It's primarily for use in my own army so as long as there's the original i'm fine. it's going to be a long way off yet. i'm not starting till i've posted off my current commissions and submitted my current batch of sculpts
I'd like to see a Chaos Dragon that looks related to the Horrors of Teentch, that roiling mass of screaming faces and grasping limbs that seems to continually turn itself inside out. With pointy teeth, and membraneous wings of course. I don't really care for the cliche of torn skin, exposed muscle and rot.
I think that making its over-all shape really serpentine would be good as well. These guys have a nice look to them.
The wings could be made to look more like enormous skeletal clawed hands with th webbing between the fingers stretched to one joint short of the fingertips. No membrane linking back to the body from the hands.
I don't think i can be bothered with making something that quite as warped as the horrors (i presume you meant the last incarnation in metal) at least not just yet. Though maybe in a year or two. (i'd like to see you have a bash though worwood)
this one will be more like a longer necked monitor lizard than outright serpent. a snakes skeletal structure's not that suited to having wings mounted on it
the central dragon in the pic wormwood posted bears a resemblence to what i have in mind
EDIT: Some of the reference material i'lll be using